What was it about the idea of āradical optimismā that inspired you to use it as your album title?
Radical optimism, in itself, felt like something that really resonated with me over the past few years. It felt like even through my last record and into the new one, it was just so much about learning from every experience, taking everything as a lesson or seeing it as a gift in some way, whether it was good or whether it was bad, and just appreciating that even from some bad situations, something great can come of it, or I can grow to be a better or stronger person from all of it.
I think that was something that propelled me in so many different ways. I think being outside of your comfort zone is something I talk about a lot, because thatās where you do the most growing, which is in the most uncomfortable situations and in the most unexpected situations and in the moments where you donāt thinkā¦ You go, āThis wasnāt supposed to happen,ā but it does. How do you adapt in those moments? How do you walk through the fire? How do you push through? And that is something that really resonated with me.
When you talk about uncomfortable moments, what are you referring to exactly?
Well it can be anything, from a breakup to a personal relationship, a work relationship, a friendship, something going wrong or all your stuff is missing from your freight cargo when youāre on tour and you donāt have any of your costumes, which has happened. It can be anything. At any moment, life is so unpredictable and people and things can surprise you all the time, and I think a quality of mine that I like, if I can say, is just remaining open-hearted even when things donāt go right and not shutting down and being like, this is something that really hurt me and Iām never going to trust anyone in my life ever again. You canāt go through life in that way. If someone is out there with any wrong or malicious intent or whatever and it happens to you, maybe it was there for a reason. Youāre meant to see it, youāre meant to go through it. So for that, Iām grateful.
Youāre coming off of āFuture Nostalgia,ā which was such a massive record for you. How did you get back into the creative space to begin this next chapter, and do you feel the weight of āFuture Nostalgiaā going into that?
For me, writing for my new album, for āRadical Optimism,ā everything was delayed because I had been on tour, and during that tour, every break that I had in between, I went to the studio. So I was breaking away from the āFuture Nostalgiaā world and going into āRadical Optimism.ā So for me, it was very important to have a sonic separation and to try to experiment with different sounds. And it took me a while, I started actually writing in 2021 but I didnāt really get anything until my very first session with Kevin Parker, Danny L. Harle, Tobias [Jesso Jr.] and Caroline [Ailin], which was in June 2022. So it was just a lot of writing and writing and figuring out where I was going and experimenting with different sounds until I was like, Iāve got it, I know where Iām headed. Thereās always one song thatās that eureka moment that takes you into the next phase of the album. And I wanted a sonic departure. I also fell in love so much with the live versions of the songs, and so I loved having that organic musicality behind it, have that be really prevalent throughout the whole new album. So yeah, thatās what I aimed to do.
You talk about your eureka moment. What was that for you?
It was a song called āIllusion.ā That was a song where I felt like lyrically, I got this radical optimism. I felt very strong in the moment when I was writing that song, because it was really seeing past someoneās bullshit, I guess, for lack of a better word. And understanding it for what it is and just entertaining it for the hell of it, even though you see whatās happening. But I felt in a stronger power of position, because I was like maybe before, I would have fallen for something like this and now I can dance with the illusion, and itās something for me too, you know? I think musically also, when Kevin and Danny came together and it was the live drums and the synths and the big music breakdown, in my head the big dance moment, when all those came together it was just a feeling. I had a feeling and I was like, now I have something to bounce off of. And in that first week, even though sonically theyāre in the same world but theyāre very different, I wrote āIllusionā and then I wrote āHappy for Youā and āHappy for Youā is a much bigger ballad, in a way. Somewhat. I wouldnāt really classify it as a ballad. Because I donāt do songs that are slow and big and emotional, but I just put them in the ballad section, Iām like, I donāt do those. But this feels almost in a world where I can really have this epic singing record that I was able to be very vulnerable and open in. But still sonically, it has this tremolo sound that Iām really obsessed with and itās Kevinās voice replicated. We use it as a sample throughout. That was just a moment for me to be really vulnerable and open and honest in what was happening in my life at that point. But I feel overall, in this whole record, I just grew as I was writing. I feel like I matured throughout.
It feels like on this album, you sing a little differently, like from your diaphragm, putting a lot of raw emotion into it. Did you feel any difference singing and performing while recording this album, versus with previous records?
Yeah, for sure. I think my voice has changed. Especially when I listened to my earlier records. I think being on tour for a whole year, in 2022, and then also recording the record, like itās a muscle, so I was using it every night. I was getting stronger, I was able to run and sing and dance and do all of that at the same time. So I feel like my vocal capabilities just got better. And I have much more control over my own voice. And I think in the beginning, for sure, my first tour I was figuring that out. I was losing my voice all the time, I was really nervous about getting sick. All my fears were connected to my voice, my throat. Like, Iām not going to be able to do this today because I might lose my voice and then I canāt sing. And Iām also past that where every morning when Iād wake up, if I wasnāt feeling well, Iād be like, alright, hot shower, cup of tea. And Iāll be good to go. Itās so in your mind as well. I think I strained my voice because I was so nervous before of losing it that now Iām much freer and much more confident. I feel like Iāve just learned to use my voice and my body in a way thatās very strong.
Youāve said that this album is inspired by Britpop, but it still sounds like a hard-nosed pop record. How did Britpop inspire you and speak to how the songs were shaped?
Well, for me, I think the Britpop element that really came to me was the influences of Oasis and Massive Attack and Portishead and Primal Scream, and the freedom and the energy those records had. I love the experimentation behind it. And of course, itās a pop record. Iām a pop artist, thatās what I do. But I think overall, the different sounds that are being used, the different breaks in the music, the use of musical samples, whether thatās with Kevinās voice or with the different instruments that we used, overall it was me going completely out of what I knew, and exploring something different. And thatās what I got from my inspiration. I wasnāt going into Britpop and being like, Iām making this record that sounds exactly likeā¦ Because it doesnāt. But itās a feeling that they portray that when I hear āTeardropā by Massive Attack and Iām like, how did this song even come to be? It feels like it just happened in a moment of real freedom and writing and emotion, and I think that was just the feeling I was trying to convey more than anything.
The album cover is a stunning shot. What made you go in this artistic direction?
I feel like this screams radical optimism to me. Just being in this setting, being very calm in the momentā¦ Iām in deep waters, Iām in with a shark and Iām remaining calm and collected throughout. That is radical optimism to me. I think everything about this record has been [about] being in the chaos and remaining grounded throughout. When I saw it, when all the pictures were printed out, this was it. This was my first instinct. This is radical optimism to me.
Whatās the big statement that you are trying to make with this record, and how do you hope people receive that?
I think for me, the importance of understanding that when things are bad, thereās always some light at the end of the tunnel. I always think about it like, when Iām in the midst of a mess of turmoil or everythingās going wrong, I always tell myself, in a couple months, Iām gonna look back on that moment, and be like, thank God I walked through it. I didnāt decide to hide or not deal with the problem at hand, whatever it is, but actually choose to go through it. And thatās how I grew. And I feel like that just overall, especially in the world right now, I think itās important that we just learn to walk through the fire and not hide away from it, or shy away from it. Thatās just optimism. Itās probably the most daring thing we can do. Sometimes.
At least, for me, I used to say that I used to be able to write songs way easier when I was sad. Because that was more of a tangible emotion that you can hold on to, and you can write about. But to write about something when youāre happy without feeling like youāre compromising yourself or making this like cheesy pop song or whatever, and making it something thatās deep and emotional, but it is optimistic, is actually way harder. And so, sometimes being optimistic isnāt the easiest thing to do. But itās the most important thing throughout because itās the thing thatās going to carry us into the next stage.
